Curse

Tyla · Mar 03, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Who said ditch the Smiters?
You might aswell get your arse on vent and do the whole 3...2....1 stuff instead of wasting a party member on tanking.

It may be a pure spike instead of balanced, but then, you can bring something else in that party member slot.

EDIT: What isamu said about Melandru dervs, too - <3 immunity to conditions.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 03, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

We aimed to finish the dungeon as fast as possible.
We did it extremely quickly, and our speed and success can be directly attributed to the tank.
Therefore, tank = good (in this scenario).

Can you be more specific on a balanced build that would do the job as effectively, or better than a tank based build? The metric for effectiveness would be time spent in dungeon; faster = better. (Also, we had 2 heroes in our group, and had to cater to the professions / skills available to the people in the group, so the team was far from optimal). Can you also detail how you would kill as fast without taking full advantage of aoe skills.

3 melandru dervs, 2 hybird Rts, 1 warder, 2 hybrid monks.

Asha Rai · Mar 03, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Who said ditch the Smiters?
You might aswell get your arse on vent and do the whole 3...2....1 stuff instead of wasting a party member on tanking.

It may be a pure spike instead of balanced, but then, you can bring something else in that party member slot.

No one said ditch the smiters.

And by 321 spiking, you imply we kill them one at a time? That would... take longer.

Tyla · Mar 03, 2008, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

No one said ditch the smiters.

And by 321 spiking, you imply we kill them one at a time? That would... take longer.

I assumed you ment removing the smiters.

And by 3...2...1 spiking, I mean 3...2...1 *Ray of Judgement*

Asha Rai · Mar 03, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

I assumed you ment removing the smiters.

And by 3...2...1 spiking, I mean 3...2...1 *Ray of Judgement*

That works fine, except the Ray of Judgment looses effectiveness when targets are spread out. This is exacerbated by the long recharge of Ray of Judgment.

With the tank managing agro, we dropped each group in just several seconds.

The Melandru's derve approach looks good; must try it some time.

Tyla · Mar 03, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

That works fine, except the Ray of Judgment looses effectiveness when targets are spread out. This is exacerbated by the long recharge of Ray of Judgment.

With the tank managing agro, we dropped each group in just several seconds.

The Melandru's derve approach looks good; must try it some time.

Arcane Echo gogo?

Besides, if you spike them before agro they should fall easily.

But you should really replace the tank with an AoM derv for managing aggro, that way you have agro control on him AND some boom.

Asha Rai · Mar 03, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Arcane Echo gogo?

Besides, if you spike them before agro they should fall easily.

But you should really replace the tank with an AoM derv for managing aggro, that way you have agro control on him AND some boom.

Echo would definitely help. We used mantra of signets to echo soj.

And, if we have an AoM derve running ahead to manage agro, and consequently take the initial hits.. that would make him a tank yes?

And having derailed this thread, I'll stop x:

Stormlord Alex · Mar 04, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha Rai

And, if we have an AoM derve running ahead to manage agro, and consequently take the initial hits.. that would make him a tank yes?

That makes him a smart frontliner. The definition of 'tank' around here is a guy who wastes his bar on defensive trash and can't hurt anything.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Wait.... you're arguing for diversity and the holy trinity setup in the same breath? Bwuh?

Another example of you not reading any of my past posts. I am only harping so much on tanking, because you are downing it so much. I'm not saying its the best, but it is a very effective way to play the game. Equally as effective is some situations, better and worse in others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

Just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD. There's a difference. Tanks are generally crap when you could just run an efficient team build with layered defense.

Disagree

Savio · Mar 04, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

I am only harping so much on tanking, because you are downing it so much. I'm not saying its the best, but it is a very effective way to play the game. Equally as effective is some situations, better and worse in others.

People would believe your bullshit if they hadn't already tried tanking and found out that it's slower and less reliable, not to mention incredibly boring. And they have evidence to support that, unlike your wholly unfounded opinion that tanking is good.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

People would believe your bullshit if they hadn't already tried tanking and found out that it's slower and less reliable, not to mention incredibly boring. And they have evidence to support that, unlike your wholly unfounded opinion that tanking is good.

It's not any of those. How is pressing the 1-8 buttons for def. skills any less then pressing 1-8 skills for offensive skills? OH! That's right, you can't stroke your epeen if your not trying to get the biggest numbers to pop up unstead of working like a team.

P.S your little saying under your name is perfect for describing you. Aggrogant.

Savio · Mar 04, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

How is pressing the 1-8 buttons for def. skills any less then pressing 1-8 skills for offensive skills?

When pressing 1-8 offensive skills does things faster than 1-8 defensive skills, then yes, defensive skills are crap.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 04, 2008, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Aggrogant.

Aggrogant: A mending wammo so arrogant that he aggros everything on the map.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

When pressing 1-8 offensive skills does things faster than 1-8 defensive skills, then yes, defensive skills are crap.

In some situations it can be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Aggrogant: A mending wammo so arrogant that he aggros everything on the map.

Aggroing everything on the map is quite lame. Not being a team player is no fun for anyone else.

Savio · Mar 04, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

In some situations it can be.

You have yet to specify these situations.

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

You have yet to specify these situations.

I just named a few in the other thread. Check there.

Yichi · Mar 04, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Again as many others have said before, there is in no situation where a tank team build will be more effective than an actual useful team build.

Tanks used to be the best way to find PuG's and play with other people through the game. The game changed, the play style changed, so tanking has fallen by the wayside of being decently bad as proven by the majority of players. Many people that do play them don;t even know how to play a tank properly, much less how to hold aggro. This led to a lot slower missions/quests where people who ran actual damage builds found these to be much faster. With the introduction of Factions, brought on the timed missions, where "Tanking" simply wasn't an alternative, you have to move quickly and had to do damage for your team to get trough within the time allotted.

This was Probably the best thing that Factions gave us was the breaking of the "Tank" mentality of most players.

Cherng Butter · Mar 04, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flem

Disagree

I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!

Yichi · Mar 04, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!

If this keyboard locks up from me spilling my iced tea all over it from laughing too hard, im sending you the bill

Flem · Mar 04, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

Again as many others have said before, there is in no situation where a tank team build will be more effective than an actual useful team build.

Tanks used to be the best way to find PuG's and play with other people through the game. The game changed, the play style changed, so tanking has fallen by the wayside of being decently bad as proven by the majority of players. Many people that do play them don;t even know how to play a tank properly, much less how to hold aggro. This led to a lot slower missions/quests where people who ran actual damage builds found these to be much faster. With the introduction of Factions, brought on the timed missions, where "Tanking" simply wasn't an alternative, you have to move quickly and had to do damage for your team to get trough within the time allotted.

This was Probably the best thing that Factions gave us was the breaking of the "Tank" mentality of most players.

Lots of people tank wrong. Tank is effective when used properly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherng Butter

I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!

That was all that needed to be said to that topic. I try to avoid filler as much as possible.